Notes from TESOL: Bill

Saudi Women:  Expectations and Challenges.  Friday 11 am.  Florin Mihai (male, U of Central Florida) and Rollie Lewis (female, Valencia College, Orlando):

Did a research project on Saudi women in ESL.  Factors are Islamic tradition, gender segregation, cultural differences.

Islamic tradition and education in KSA:  women students and male professor would be in separate rooms with a one way mirror--students could see the teacher and could ask questions.

Research questions:
1.  How much do exipectations (of education in the US) match with your actual experience?
2.  Are co-ed classes a challenge?  If so, why?
3.  What can we do to help Saudi women navigate this new environment?

Four subjects for the project--four Saudi women:
a.  age 33, single, from Jeddah
b.  age 27, married, from Jeddah
c.  age 24, single, from Medina
d.  mid-30s, married, from Riyadh.
All four subjects were very different.  (d.) was covered completely, including a masked face.  Their English level was Intermediate and they had only a few months time in the US.

[We can see that this data base is much too small to draw too many conclusions.  Yet, the responses are genuine and valid and worth considering.  The presenters also understood that this is a very small sample, but felt that they had gotten some rare and much-needed information from Saudi women students.]  Bill

Self-reported positives about study in the US.
1.  Friendly teachers who are willing to answer questions.  Teachers make us feel comfortable.
2.  High quality instruction.
3.  Academic rigor.
4.  The amount learned in class. They were learning a lot in the classroom.

Self-reported negatives.
1.  The amount learned in class (!) (...see #4 above).  This refers to the speed of the class. "I hate grammar...I can't understand quickly...teacher spoke too fast."
2.  groupwork:  felt that she didn't learn.  didn't like speaking with non-native speakers.
3.  tardiness policy:  one liked it, another didn't..."It's too strict." (chuckles from the attendees...)
4.  plagiarism:  concept and interpretation.  Didn't know it was a problem--it's not a problem in KSA--one student in trouble for plagiarism very honestly felt she had done nothing wrong and felt offended.

Self-reported challenges.
1.  Working with men.  (One woman had worked with men in KSA.)  Felt that Saudi men would laugh at them in  the classroom, or that they may be judged by Saudi men.  But didn't feel uncomfortable with a male teacher.  Should let the student choose to work with men.  Would be angry if forced to work with a man.  This was an issue based on religion and based on custom.  In general the women said they felt no pressure from their family on this issue, but felt great pressure from their husbands.
2.  Working against stereoptypes of Saudi culture.
3.  traditional culture.  Two wore traditional clothing.  One dressed in all black and a veil.  One wore a veil in KSA, but does not wear it here.  Why the scarf?  Three said 'religion' but gave not details.  One said that this is instruction from the Koran but that it was up to the individual woman to follow.

Each woman was interviewed individually, with no other person in the room.

The Saudi women worried about other students not understanding Saudi culture.

Their advice for future Saudi women?
"Here (in the US), you are responsible for yourself.  If you are not strong, don't come here."
"Follow the teacher's advice.  Sometimes the teacher is right."  (laughter from the attendees)
"Take it easy and it won't be hard."  (relax?  don't stress too much?)  The transition wasn't that hard--if they have had an opportunity to work with men (before they come to the US) it would be easier here."
"Study English before you come."

Pedagogical Implications
Expectations generally matched.  Difficulties arose because of differences in education cultures--tardiness, plagiarism.
Coed classes?  Answers varied, based on the woman's personality, life experience, commitment to religion.  There is fear of being ridiculed by Saudi men.
Some were simply shy women by nature.

Rollie:  How to help them succeed.
1.  Their fear is very real to them. (A Saudi man said, "I would never want to marry a Saudi woman I met here (laughter).  They have changed--the veil is gone--they talk to men."
2.  Female students want to be asked (not ordered).  Talk to the women about working with men.
3.  plagiarism:  They don't understand fully.  They don't understand that one line copied is a bad thing.  Paraphrasing exercises help, but they just don't get it.  They need extensive practice.
4.  monitor the pace of instruction.  Make rules clear from the beginning.

Last quote from one of the Saudi women:  "Not all students (Saudi women students) have the same way...some cover, some don't.  For each student therre is a way to understand her."

Audience comments from the Saudi session:

#1 (woman teacher from Boston U):  "...there is great change going on.  We've found that there is great variance (in attitudes, ability to adjust to working outside Saudi culture, e.g. men working with women) depending on the level.  Lower levels had the hardest time adjusting..."  There seemed to be a good bit of agreement from the attendees.
Malcolm (the presenter):  "I don't want to change their culture..one Saudi woman once said to me, 'We heard that all American men change diapers...'" (laughter from the attendees). Mrs Malcom mentioned "...respect....it's not been modeled..."  I believe this referred to American teachers needing to respect the Saudi culture.
#2 (Ashley of ODU): "...I feel lilke the respect is not going both ways..." referring to Saudis need also to respect American culture and there is an element of the Saudis dictating the environ or even the rules of the classroom.
#1:  "...they will have to learn from us..."
#3:  "...we are preparing them for (American) classes..."  (mainstream classrooms in American universities.)
#4 (man):  (in our program) "...we've learned to follow body language (don't stand too close, be careful about looking into the faces)...we must see them as individuals---we must read their reactions and respond...we must become a 'respected teacher' (Saudi concept and term) ."
#5:  "...they seem uncomfortable in mixed groups.  A good model is to offer everyone the same amount of respect."
#6:  "How do you balance?  There are time limits...they must move beyond ESL quickly... (thus they feel under pressure--pass IELTS, TOEFL, etc)...we tell the student, 'We can't give you an exception...'"
Malcom:  "There is a fine lilne.  I do make exceptions for things like sick children.  And unlike men, the women don't negotiate classwork (or homework?)..."
#7 (man):  "...teachers feel overwhelmed.  How to control?  We don't 'control'--we facililtate.  (referring here to aggressive students trying to speak all the time).  I use popsicle sticks.  Each student's name is on a stick.  When the student raises his (or her) hand, I pull out the stick, answer the question and lay the stick down.  This is the way they learn to take turns."
woman #5:  (mentioned that Isabel Coleman (unclear who this is) came to our school (U of Denver)...there are 65,000 Saudis int he US now...there is so little information about the educational experience in their own country..."
Saudi man sitting in front row:  "I am a grad student doing research on class participation.  Saudi women have a negative attitude to men.  (men here in the US?  seemed to imply that...)  Back home it is different...there is very limited time spent with men...it is not easy to adapt...it takes time...ladies (Saudi) are now establishing their identity...it is not easy..."
#5:  "...you need to publish..."  (sounds of assent from the masses...)
Malcolm:  "...quite a bit is coming out (publications)...interviewing is helping (interviewing Saudi women in the US).  A Saudi woman said to me, '  This is NOT who I am...my brother will not let me speak...'  (referring to herself and her behavior in the classroom. The brother was either in the same class or in the same program.)
For men, after age 13 or 14, there is no talk about women. (added later that they always talk easily about their mothers and their cute younger sisters.  But culturally, they cannot mention women who have entered puberty or adulthood...)
Saudi man #2 (standing in back.  Clearly in command of English and familiar with American culture and university settings.  Mellow guy...):  "It's our culture.  Even for me, it's hard to speak to a Saudi woman.  Especially if I know her husband or brother.  It is custom and it is ideology (referring to religion I think...)...we can not cross this (line).  I am doing research on Saudi's perception of studies--difficult to get access to women--all research is coming from interviewing or questioning (Saudi) men..."
Saudi woman:  "The question should be "How can we engage?  We have to consider cultural background.  We can't talk to Saudi mates...we have this deep in our minds.  How?"
Malcolm:  "It's carefully engineered.  Get things randomly..." (not clear what she meant, but it seems to be that we are getting information, but it is random.  'engineered' may refer to Saudi male/female relations.)
#8 (US man):  "We did video projects.  We cut out faces (photographs--usually well known people like actresses or singers...) and put the faces on sticks...the ladies took on the personna of the person on the mask..." (this allowed them to respond freely and without anxiety...)
Woman #6:  "Things are diverse.  (all the women are different in temperment and personality...).  Ask a Saudi woman, 'What are you comfortable with?'  Don't guess (ask them).  They are very diverse."